Roane Smothers' Tour of Longtown
Roane Smothers: Gonna try and get Anna-lisa Cox’s book, get that out as much as possible because that talks about….
JS: I’ve been seeing her book everywhere over the internet recently!
Roane Smothers: Yes, this is not unusual. We thought, you know, even I thought this was unusual, no. This is part of….
JS: Even me, 5 years ago when I first started doing it. And then she has this book and I’m like “Oh!”
Roane Smothers: Okay, right after here you’ll make a right turn into the driveway. Keep going up to the fencepost, right here. The house we think was built in 1850, close to it.
JS: Okay, we’ll just get out really fast.
Roane Smothers: Yeah.
JS: We’re just, we’re just gonna get out really fast and like…
Roane Smothers: The house was built in 1850 but…
JS: You bought the land in 1822?
Roane Smothers: 1823(?)
JS: Can you record? Like video?
Roane Smothers: This shows up in all the history books.
JS: Yeah.
Roane Smothers: This was 1822, but I have the original deed, 1818. I beat the history books! So we’re putting on the historic monument “1818. “
JS: And it was how far out here?
Roane Smothers: The road was that way. The road was there.
Interviewer 2: What about the barn?
Roane Smothers: It was an English two-bay barn. Two… three bays, sorry.
Roane Smothers: This says “I made it! I’m rich. “
JS: This is awesome.
Roane Smothers: And what I mean by that is if you go to the Levi Kauffman house, it has headlights, but not sidelights. This has got sidelights. The, uh, the foundation is limestone. So, he’s showing… one of the ways to show you’re rich is you a limestone foundation. To, um, and what that picture [???], what was over the door.
JS: And they missed the beginning part… you said that the land was bought…
Roane Smothers: bought in 1822. This particular piece of property.
JS: And this was the home of the first black landowner in…
Roane Smothers: Yes, James Clemens. Bought land in 1818. He was the first one here that officially bought land.
JS: Can I look in the window?
Roane Smothers: Yeah, that’s why I want to show you the, the fireplace. You can see the fireplace from here, but you can see it, do you see the fireplace?
JS: Oh man, I need to come in here one day.
Roane Smothers: You can see it inside. You see, you see?
JS: Okay, we can do it quickly.
Roane Smothers: It has African motif. We think it’s related to a tribe in Africa, but we can’t really tell.
Jazma Sutton 3: Do you know where the Clemens were from?
Roane Smothers: Hm?
JS: Do you know where they were from?
JS: Virginia.
Roane Smothers: They were from Rockingham County in Virginia. Actually, James was the son of a white man from Augusta County, and…
JS: Are we going this way?
Roane Smothers: Yeah. Sophia was the daughter of um….
JS: Adam Sellers.
Roane Smothers: Rockingham County, [???] slavemaster.
JS: What?
Roane Smothers: Excuse the mess because…
JS: No, it’s fine.
Roane Smothers: The racoons have gotten inside it.
JS: Can we actually go into the farmhouse?
Roane Smothers: Whew, it smells funky. This is what I’ve said, this is the modernization when they put in the sink. But, they actually look like that. There’s this big old empty area that they put the sink in.
JS: Oh, look at the chandelier!
Roane Smothers: This is the, see the boing boing boing? Smaller, larger, larger. And, we think that a tribe in Africa, it’s related to a tribe in Africa because I’ve been [????] this, never seen a mantle like that before. There’s one that’s similar to it in Cherokee Chief in Georgia. I went to the house and it has a mantle similar to that.
JS: We can put some of this corner, as this as an object, this house as an object.
[mumbling] Interviewer 2: How long was this place inhabited for?
Roane Smothers: About, uh, 1980’s.
JS: 1850 to 1980. And supposedly they assist their runaways here too, right? This is huge.
[lots of mumbling/ unintelligible chatter]
JS: Do people go upstairs?
Roane Smothers: Um, you can but there’s no roof, and there’s probably lots of excrement of racoons in there.
JS: Can you just walk up the stairs with your camera? I’m not gonna go all the way, I just wanna see.
Interviewer 2: Oh, there’s lots of crap up there.
Roane Smothers: Is there lots of excrement up there? Interviewer 2: Right there, yeah.
JS: Look at the room! This is so big.
JS: What would this have been? What would this have been?
Roane Smothers: This is another room. The bathroom was put in later….
JS: Because the lamp that Cleo had, Ms. Cleo had, Ms. Cleo, she said they didn’t have electricity until she was a teenager, so that was the lamp, the light that they used to use. Finally, I feel complete! This is the only place I hadn’t been! It’s so weird how they add, like in today’s time, they put these roads and stuff so what is like, even at the Levi Kauffman house, like the back of their house ends up being on the main road when that was the front and it’s more towards that way. I’m gonna look in the barn, there’s probably all types of [???]. There’s still a piece of the wagon in there! Can you take a photo of that? I know they was hiding slaves up in here. If you go to the… I wish we had time to go to the Levi Kauffman one, cuz he’s like the most known for helping on the Underground Railroad, and if this house looks, that house is held up to be something special, but that house is WAY bigger. Okay, we’re just gonna stop at the other ones.
Roane Smothers: And then it goes another mile past Stingley Road.
JS: Can you speak on the significance of the border? Um, and how they would migrate and move from one place to another?
Roane Smothers: Yeah, the, when I was researching, it was called “tri racial communities. “ On the East Coast a professor noticed that they were located on borders. And, he theorized they were located on borders that if one community passed laws against blacks, they can move across it.
So, it became a very helpful with the Underground Railroad. ‘Cuz, when Levy Kauffman would send, if he had escaped slaves, and the slave hunters were in Indiana, he’d send them by way of here, which is Ohio. And vice-versa, if the slave hunters were in Ohio, he’d send ‘em…
JS: Because they couldn’t cross over into the next state.
Roane Smothers: Yeah, they could cross into the next state and any search warrants they had had to be renewed, right? Because it’s a different state.
JS: Would that be the Habeas Corpus? Interviewer 2: Would that change after the Fugitive Slave Act was passed?
Roane Smothers: Um, you still, well, the Fugitive Slave Act… no keep going straight… changed things because when then all you needed was another white person to vouch that that was your slave. So I guess, in that sense…
JS: And they couldn’t testify if you were black at that time?
Roane Smothers: Right, right. Uh, they also used it, um…
JS: So what about after Indiana and Ohio becomes a state, and the laws are kinda set in place?
Roane Smothers: Well then, they used it for, um, baseball games. The Longtown Tigers, the baseball team, had their field in Ohio, but Ohio had Blue Laws. Do you know what Blue Laws are? Oh you don’t. Nothing but church and eat on Sundays, that was the law. Can’t shop, can’t do anything else. And so, if they wanted to play baseball, they’d go across the line and play baseball! Where there was no laws against black baseball on Sunday. In church, the AME church was actually right up here.
JS: Across from the Union Literary Institute?
Roane Smothers: Yes, correct, it was somewhere along in here. It was the ….
Roane Smothers: And then, in the 1870’s they actually picked up the church and moved it across the line, to Ohio.
JS: The AME church?
Roane Smothers: The AME church. Because, I think racism was becoming more profound in Indiana.
Um, slow down, and make a left turn.
JS: And we’re just gonna like, take a photo and we’re not gonna get all out the car.
Roane Smothers: Okay. There’s the historic marker. There is the Union Literacy Institute.
Interviewer 2: Alright you want me to get… to jump out?
JS: Yeah, that’s fine. And, it’s only to place it. So, you can get one from like the front right here.
Interviewer 2: Alright, I’ll get one from the side too.
JS: Okay.
Roane Smothers: Again, this is… there was a whole separate city over here, sorta mirrored community. You know, what was in Ohio was in Indiana. [???] the same, but…
JS: So, did they intermingle together? Like…
Roane Smothers: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, they married, they crossed the line, they…
JS: So, they did not care about that… and that’s what I thought. I assumed that, but I’m like…
Roane Smothers: They didn’t care. They fornicated, they did whatever…
JS: But it was, but it was beneficial when it came to the law.
Roane Smothers: Right, correct.
JS: That’s good.
Roane Smothers: When it came to families, sex, whatever, no [gibberish].
JS: I was talking to Ricky, not Ricky Cottman but the other Ricky, he was telling me how, like, first cousins, his mom was like when he came here “don’t marry, don’t you date none of them!”
Roane Smothers: Yes. But there was a … this is the last real building that’s standing on the Indiana side.
JS: Because I know there was more, where was the other part of the building [??]
Roane Smothers: The superintendent’s house was right over here. Which was the, the superintendent lived down below, first floor, and then above it was little rooms for boarders to stay, to go to school. Do you remember seeing… It’s a two-story building. The first floor was where the superintendent taught, and then above it was little rooms where students would spend a semester, um, being educated.
JS: In this one?
Roane Smothers: No, in the one…
JS: Oh, in the one that was…. Did you get across the street? Okay cool.
Roane Smothers: Superintendent’s house was right over here, and that was torn down probably in the 1960’s.
JS: Okay.
Roane Smothers: [???]. But then it was a boarding school, so you had students…
JS: I saw that, um, is it Louisa Cottman… no her mother Agnes Cottman, Agnes Robins Cottman and her husband were the superintendents right before, during the Civil War.
Roane Smothers: Yeah. Well, again, it’s such a historic building, but it’s in such bad shape. But, as I explain to folks, black history was not cherished and so, that’s what happens. The problem we’re having as black historians to try and save those structures…
JS: And I feel like with this type of work, not saying that we’re gonna be able to do that, but eventually, like, when universities and stuff get involved, and you can get the help for writing grants, and being able to get things restored and better preserved and…
Roane Smothers: Because I’m having pushback on, they still don’t think African-American history is important. In fact, I think there’s a blowback even more that we don’t wanna talk about that history because right now the country is very split along racial lines. And, these are stories of black superiority, and they destroy white superiority. The story they wanna tell is, which is ‘go back where you came from, all people of color don’t really belong here. ‘
JS: How far is Bren da Jet’s house from the [???]’s, umm…
Roane Smothers: It’s less than a quarter of a mile.
JS: Because, if it’s not too far, I would just wanna… because that land has been black-owned for a long time.
Roane Smothers: Yes, that was Clemen’s land originally. Where are we going now? We’re going to the Clemens cemetery? Okay.
Interviewer 2: What was the student population of the, like how many students went to…
Roane Smothers: There are probably over 1,000.
JS: Altogether?
Roane Smothers: Altogether.
JS: I remember one time I found a document, I think it said there was about 300, it listed like 300 scholars. But I don’t know, like, at what time.
Roane Smothers: Well, yeah. The question is time frame. Because in 18… that’s when I had a problem writing the nomination because I had to figure out, when was it really the Union Literary Institute, and then it changed over to a grammar school. And, it was about 1875 that they started, um…
JS: I found, um, what is it…
Roane Smothers: Clemens cemetery is this way.
JS: Um, the Smothers who was the principal of the Union Literary Institute, he was at like the Association of Teachers in Ohio, or something. And in those records, each school talked about the condition of the school and how many students were there, so in like 1860 I think he said maybe somewhere between 12 and 30 were there.
Roane Smothers: Here is the Clemens cemetery.
JS: Aaah, okay.
Roane Smothers: If you wanna get a picture of the sign or whatever, it’s still an active cemetery.
JS: Can you take a photo of the cemetery? One right here and one right there…
Roane Smothers: Also, that white house right there is a log cabin, is a Bass log cabin. The Bass family.
JS: How long has it been there?
Roane Smothers: Well, they moved it from someplace, I’m not sure where they moved it to. But, it’s been, it’s probably been there over a hundred years. And, probably older than that.
JS: Okay, we’ll take a photo of that too. I’mma tell…
Roane Smothers: That’s my next building that I would like to acquire, the cabin owned by the Bass when they first settled in the 1820’s.
JS: And this is the same building? I mean of course, like…
Roane Smothers: Well, it was moved. But, it’s a log cabin underneath, yes.
JS: Who owns it now?
Roane Smothers: Um, William Jones’s family. It’s falling apart, but I told them it’s a historic place, so, yeah, it is not being kept up…
JS: That is… wooooah. Yeah. You can like, get out and stand out in the grass.
Roane Smothers: I would love to acquire that house.
JS: Oh my gosh, this is my first time seeing this one!
Roane Smothers: I don’t have the resources to do anything. I’m drowning in trying to save the buildings I’m trying to save.
JS: And you said it was, how old, since 18…. I’m gonna yell that out the window.
Roane Smothers: What?
JS: How old the home is? He said there’s a log cabin underneath, it’s over a hundred years old.
Roane Smothers: It’s more than that. [???]
JS: This is amazing. I’ve never seen this one, so I’m happy to see this. I trust you! And we’re turning back around!
Roane Smothers: Yeah, we’re turning back around. And you wanted to go to Brenda’s father’s house?
JS: How far is it?
Roane Smothers: We were really close when we were at the Clemens house.
JS: We don’t have to go back!
Roane Smothers: Okay.
JS: And, this is pretty much it, ‘cuz we can get the Bass one as we’re leaving.
Roane Smothers: Bass cemetery coming back, okay.
JS: I don’t know how to turn it around. Oh, here’s a little parking….
Roane Smothers: I liked your example, what they did in St. Paul.
JS: Oh, Remembering Rondo?
Roane Smothers: I used to live in St. Paul, Minnesota, so…
JS: What a coincidence! Yeah,
Roane Smothers: Summit Hill
JS: The historian that did it had came to IU to talk about it, and…
Roane Smothers: Gentrified greatly.
JS: She was talking about like with the highway, going right over where they were living at.
Roane Smothers: They found the path of least resistance which was through the black community. They did that everywhere in the United States.
JS: Why is it saying ‘no key detected’? Oh God. Okay, I guess, can you just tell me when the schoolhouse was built? How old is it?
Roane Smothers: I have around 17. . . 18. . . 1890, 1870, somewhere around there. Because, this is the first building that I tried to put on the National Register. Um, learning about the National Register, and when I told the story, they said the problem is, that building was built after most of your story, when you talk about the Civil War. Also, it’s been changed what it had been. Again, National [????], because of the addition, it’s been altered, and the windows and all that. So, that’s when Brenda showed me the….